Criminal investigations in a libertarian society (an IM chat)

(2:54:50 AM) Rubeskies: hey man
(2:54:50 AM) Nielsio <AUTO-REPLY> : I'm not here right now
(2:55:07 AM) Rubeskies: when you come back, I have a topic I'd like you to help me with
(2:56:15 AM) Rubeskies: I'm having a hard time explaining how criminal investigations might be done and problems with juristiction with AC
(2:57:55 AM) Nielsio: hey
(2:58:06 AM) Rubeskies: yo
(2:59:20 AM) Rubeskies: i guess I'm having trouble explaining why anybody in another "government" setup or simply somebody on their own property would comply with a criminial investigation
(3:00:19 AM) Nielsio: http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=8924409&postcount=2
(3:02:29 AM) Rubeskies: interesting
(3:03:18 AM) Rubeskies: that spawned a lot of questions in my mind
(3:03:25 AM) Rubeskies: but I'm coming up with a lot of the answers on my own
(3:03:28 AM) Nielsio: :(
(3:03:36 AM) Nielsio: The idea was that is would answer a lot of them
(3:03:44 AM) Rubeskies: haha it did!
(3:03:52 AM) Nielsio: :)
(3:03:55 AM) Rubeskies: it put me on the right track
(3:04:02 AM) Rubeskies: but I had to think more deeply about it
(3:04:27 AM) Rubeskies: let me see if I understand
(3:05:52 AM) Rubeskies: so people who do business with people who don't have one of these representative coutries are taking a calculated risk
(3:06:01 AM) Rubeskies: but what about people who don't belong to on
(3:06:02 AM) Rubeskies: one
(3:06:11 AM) Rubeskies: and they aren't the criminal
(3:06:13 AM) Rubeskies: just a witness
(3:06:39 AM) Rubeskies: what makes them comply with an investigation
(3:06:40 AM) Rubeskies: ?
(3:07:05 AM) Nielsio: representative countries?
(3:07:19 AM) Rubeskies: oop
(3:07:21 AM) Rubeskies: companies
(3:07:30 AM) Rubeskies: sorry, representative companies
(3:08:34 AM) Nielsio: People who don't have representation are basically declaring they want to engage in criminal activity
(3:10:19 AM) Rubeskies: but they could still hire private security teams
(3:10:30 AM) Rubeskies: although that would probably be bad for the private security team
(3:10:35 AM) Rubeskies: making them a criminal organization
(3:10:59 AM) Nielsio: Binding yourself to representation is the fundamental basis of being part of civil society
(3:11:09 AM) Rubeskies: I see
(3:11:12 AM) Rubeskies: that makes sense
(3:11:18 AM) Nielsio: This was true even hundreds of years ago
(3:11:31 AM) Rubeskies: so organization who refuses to compoly
(3:11:35 AM) Rubeskies: comply
(3:11:43 AM) Nielsio: If you say "I cannot be sued or prosecuted". What do you think that means?
(3:12:06 AM) Rubeskies: i cannot sue or prosecute anybody else
(3:12:18 AM) Nielsio: That's not my point
(3:12:21 AM) Rubeskies: oh
(3:12:48 AM) Nielsio: It means you want to live among other people yet be responsible for nothing
(3:12:51 AM) Nielsio: Whatever you do
(3:13:32 AM) Rubeskies: yeah
(3:13:35 AM) Rubeskies: what I said was your point
(3:13:49 AM) Rubeskies: basically
(3:14:10 AM) Rubeskies: so what about the organization that refuses to participate?
(3:14:32 AM) Rubeskies: I guess nobody will do business with them?
(3:14:36 AM) Nielsio: Criminal and/or outside of society
(3:14:49 AM) Rubeskies: and if a member enters other society and runs back to the other?
(3:14:56 AM) Rubeskies: after commiting murder?
(3:15:04 AM) Rubeskies: how does an investigation occur?
(3:15:11 AM) Rubeskies: does the protecting organization have to enter?
(3:15:19 AM) Rubeskies: since the protecting is criminal?
(3:15:24 AM) Nielsio: Your question illustrates why the representation order is so improtant
(3:15:45 AM) Nielsio: Because you're not JUST going to be represented
(3:15:54 AM) Nielsio: Someone will have to take you on
(3:16:02 AM) Nielsio: And they will only do that if they know the risks
(3:16:06 AM) Nielsio: And are willing to bear them
(3:16:38 AM) Nielsio: And they have a reputation to uphold
(3:16:38 AM) Rubeskies: thanks, this is really helping
(3:16:59 AM) Nielsio: So if you come over from some distant land you better have a good story
(3:17:07 AM) Nielsio: And or ways you can demonstrate your history
(3:17:27 AM) Nielsio: If you can't, you'll pay the highest possible rates and have to least amount of access
(3:17:40 AM) Nielsio: And you'll have to earn your trust
(3:17:54 AM) Rubeskies: I understand that
(3:18:23 AM) Rubeskies: I was just trying to get my head around organizations that refuse to comply
(3:18:26 AM) Nielsio: Do you see the immense consequences this has on incentives?
(3:18:31 AM) Rubeskies: yup
(3:18:33 AM) Rubeskies: definitely
(3:18:36 AM) Rubeskies: im getting it now
(3:18:56 AM) Nielsio: Ofcourse, we're talking about a somewhat developed libertarian society
(3:19:04 AM) Rubeskies: of course
(3:19:55 AM) Nielsio: A primitive libertarian society, that doesn't have of lot of wealth, will solve problems differently
(3:20:07 AM) Nielsio: In a more wild west kind of way
(3:20:19 AM) Rubeskies: right
(3:20:45 AM) Nielsio: i.e. lock people up, hang them, etc
(3:24:36 AM) Nielsio: Or if some person thinks there is evidence to be found on your property, to give his story + evidence to the strong man of the town and knock on your door and tell you that you can either give them access or else they will force access
(3:24:44 AM) Nielsio: *strong men
(3:26:24 AM) Rubeskies: and I the way abuse of this is prevented is by public outrage when it is abused?
(3:26:50 AM) Nielsio: yes
(3:26:59 AM) Rubeskies: sounds about right
(3:27:11 AM) Nielsio: So you see how that also give you an incentive to be not unliked
(3:27:17 AM) Rubeskies: right
(3:27:42 AM) Nielsio: But there is more room for abuse/error in this society, ofcourse
(3:27:59 AM) Rubeskies: which society?
(3:28:02 AM) Rubeskies: today's or that one?
(3:28:04 AM) Nielsio: The more primitive one
(3:28:09 AM) Rubeskies: oh right
(3:28:17 AM) Nielsio: The more primitive libertarian society
(3:29:06 AM) Nielsio: Still, it's endlessly better and more just than a monopoly, given whatever set of wealth
(3:29:16 AM) Rubeskies: right