*** Official At The Bar Thread ***

by **Nielsio** Thu Feb 19, 2009 4:51 am

Socializing talk goes here.

by Nomad Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:53 am

No liquor tax here, right?

by **Nielsio** Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:03 am

Nope. And no tea tax either.

btw, are you zer0 from 2+2?

I really suggest people get an avatar.

by Nomad Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:22 am

I am not zer0. I've made some annoying and stupid posts on 2+2 and I'm thinking of ditching that account, or maybe just ditching 2+2 I waste so much time there and I enjoy it less and less.

So I'll tell you if you want to know, but I'm not crazy about being associated with myself, lol.

by Nomad Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:23 am

I'll get right on the avatar, just gotta think for a minute.

by Nomad Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:33 am

Like my gold pony?

by **Nielsio** Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:34 am

NforNomad wrote:I am not zer0. I've made some annoying and stupid posts on 2+2 and I'm thinking of ditching that account, or maybe just ditching 2+2 I waste so much time there and I enjoy it less and less.

So I'll tell you if you want to know, but I'm not crazy about being associated with myself, lol.

A big reason for starting this up is for more joy. I get so much value out of sharing thoughts with likeminded people. Discussion with not-likeminded people is fine too, but only if it leads somewhere. Too often on 2+2 it leads nowhere, and the only value you get is when other people read it and learn from it, but you don't often hear from them. Or better yet: you hear from the people that don't learn all the time.

by **Nielsio** Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:37 am

NforNomad wrote:Like my gold pony?

Not really, heh. Seems a bit morbid.

by Nomad Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:41 am

It is definitely good to have AC presence there. You and boro are excellent. I get frustrated and say sarcastic things too often. I think half of my first 100 posts in politics were just snarky/stupid levels.

Oh, Is it possible to change my name? I'd prefer to just be Nomad.

by **Nielsio** Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:04 am

NforNomad wrote:It is definitely good to have AC presence there. You and boro are excellent. I get frustrated and say sarcastic things too often. I think half of my first 100 posts in politics were just snarky/stupid levels.

If you realize exactly why they are the way they are, then you'll realize that being snarky cannot help. The reason people cling to violent and authoritarian ideologies is because that's the lesson they've been learned. That lesson is that if someone behaves abnormal, that the proper way to respond is to bully them and to make them feel bad. The lesson they have not learned, have no understanding of and have no practice in, is that if someone behaves abnormal, then that is an effect; to understand that effect we must put ourselves in the shoes of that person. And we can only do that if that person allows us into their world. We therefore need empathy, understanding of psychology and be non-judgmental. And we might finally arrive at the conclusion that the person wasn't behaving abnormal, but perfectly natural, given the circumstances.

So we want the person we're debating with to learn that lesson, so that he stops supporting authoritarian ideologies directed to others. However, in order for that person to get there we must deal with him in that exact same way first. So: if you're snarky towards someone, there is 0 chance that he'll be better to others. Or to put it another way: you can't punish people into becoming better people.

by **Nielsio** Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:05 am

NforNomad wrote:Oh, Is it possible to change my name? I'd prefer to just be Nomad.

Yes, I enabled that and I think it should work for normal users.

by Nomad Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:20 am

Nielsio wrote:
Yes, I enabled that and I think it should work for normal users.

Wow, I need to stop making assumptions.

by Nomad Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:37 am

You put it so well. I guess I have been gradually realizing how counter-productive those posts are.

I am going to need some help empathizing with statists. I always feel like they are attacking me.

Ok, it's past my bedtime. I suppose it is morning in Holland, have a good one.

by FireUp Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:01 pm

Nielsio wrote:
If you realize exactly why they are the way they are, then you'll realize that being snarky cannot help. The reason people cling to violent and authoritarian ideologies is because that's the lesson they've been learned. That lesson is that if someone behaves abnormal, that the proper way to respond is to bully them and to make them feel bad. The lesson they have not learned, have no understanding of and have no practice in, is that if someone behaves abnormal, then that is an effect; to understand that effect we must put ourselves in the shoes of that person. And we can only do that if that person allows us into their world. We therefore need empathy, understanding of psychology and be non-judgmental. And we might finally arrive at the conclusion that the person wasn't behaving abnormal, but perfectly natural, given the circumstances.

So we want the person we're debating with to learn that lesson, so that he stops supporting authoritarian ideologies directed to others. However, in order for that person to get there we must deal with him in that exact same way first. So: if you're snarky towards someone, there is 0 chance that he'll be better to others. Or to put it another way: you can't punish people into becoming better people.

Me thinks this should be a sticky.

I'm opening another thread on the difficulty of putting this approach into practice.

by Коровьев Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:42 pm

Socializing talk

by alaw911 Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:10 pm

Nomad wrote:I am going to need some help empathizing with statists. I always feel like they are attacking me.

Just think of them as people who have been misled.

It's like a drowning person. You're not empathizing with the way they are, but with the way they could be when you help them.

by Nomad Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:09 pm

alaw911 wrote:
Nomad wrote:I am going to need some help empathizing with statists. I always feel like they are attacking me.
Just think of them as people who have been misled.

It's like a drowning person. You're not empathizing with the way they are, but with the way they could be when you help them.

That's probably a good way to think about it. And when they appear to be drowning others it's only in desperation and panic.

by alaw911 Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:54 pm

ya, they can't help it

by Borodog Sat Feb 21, 2009 11:27 pm

by alaw911 Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:11 am

hai Boro

by **Nielsio** Tue Feb 24, 2009 12:49 am

http://anarchyinyourhead.com/archive/

Anarchy comics. They're pretty good!!

*** Official At The Bar Thread *** 2009-02-20-impending_doom

*** Official At The Bar Thread *** 2008-12-03-flood_relief

*** Official At The Bar Thread *** 2008-10-01-sunflower_street

by john Sat May 23, 2009 2:43 pm

hey all just joined,whats hapening.

by **Nielsio** Sat May 23, 2009 5:06 pm

Hey John,

Any particular things you are interested in lately?

by john Sat May 23, 2009 8:14 pm

hey nielsio,i'm from australia,i play online,i've pretty well just been working my new job, labouring for a plumber,which is interesting atm,and playing sng's...
my hopes for this year is to play a few wcoop events and then overseas for some freedom,idk.
my real passion is adventure and nature,i live right next to a world heritage national park and on the ocean,(so i've got the best of both worlds)so pretty well exploring/trekking and enjoying what i've got.
what do you do for a living nielsio?whats your passions?i saw your pics from your holiday (which were awesome) hope you had an epic time....
p.s i 've been playing poker since late 2007 (online) i never got into 2+2,i know what you mean about no-one contributing,alot of 2+2ers just think because of the fact they're 2+2ers makes them a superior being or something,idk,most people that play poker invest/look for education,it doesnt' mean your good because of it..........
i'm talking about the 2008 5000 post posters who's main numbers come from '+1'lol-hope you know what i mean.

by **Nielsio** Sun May 24, 2009 4:30 pm

john wrote:hey nielsio,i'm from australia,i play online,i've pretty well just been working my new job, labouring for a plumber,which is interesting atm,and playing sng's...
my hopes for this year is to play a few wcoop events and then overseas for some freedom,idk.
my real passion is adventure and nature,i live right next to a world heritage national park and on the ocean,(so i've got the best of both worlds)so pretty well exploring/trekking and enjoying what i've got.
what do you do for a living nielsio?whats your passions?i saw your pics from your holiday (which were awesome) hope you had an epic time....
p.s i 've been playing poker since late 2007 (online) i never got into 2+2,i know what you mean about no-one contributing,alot of 2+2ers just think because of the fact they're 2+2ers makes them a superior being or something,idk,most people that play poker invest/look for education,it doesnt' mean your good because of it..........
i'm talking about the 2008 5000 post posters who's main numbers come from '+1'lol-hope you know what i mean.

Are you interested in libertarian ideas?

by SethJ Tue Nov 17, 2009 5:42 pm

I will have a Johnnie Walker Black Label on the rocks, please.

by **Nielsio** Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:04 pm

Cheers Seth,

What's your avatar?

by SethJ Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:20 pm

It is Frank Frazetta's painting "The Barbarian."

http://frankfrazetta.org/images/frank_frazetta_thebarbarian.jpg

Used as a cover for a Conan novel.

by Borodog Thu Dec 03, 2009 6:01 am

Hello all.

by SethJ Thu Dec 03, 2009 10:12 am

Howdy Boro

by **Nielsio** Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:36 pm

I saw Whatever Works yesterday with some friends. From a preview I didn't think I'd like it, but I turned out to love it. Very life affirming. Particularly towards the end. Very funny too. Highly recommended.

by SethJ Thu Dec 03, 2009 7:53 pm

I watched Terminator Salvation again yesterday. Very future life affirming, imo.... tongue

I'm so ready to kick those machines' asses....

by **Nielsio** Thu Dec 03, 2009 8:05 pm

Don't hurt them. Machines have rights too.

*** Official At The Bar Thread *** EveWalle

by SethJ Fri Dec 04, 2009 2:26 pm

Nielsio wrote:Don't hurt them. Machines have rights too.

Ahh but they give up that right as soon as they decide to try and terminate/enslave me.

*** Official At The Bar Thread *** Terminator

by **Nielsio** Thu Jan 21, 2010 5:01 am

I saw Avatar (2009) 3D tonight. It was amazing and I recommend everyone to see it. The story is all about empathy and moral rights. And on top of that you get to see a stunningly beautiful world and human interplay.

by Alex Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:00 am

Hey everybody, I'm Alex, and I can say with conviction that I'm a friend of Niels. Though we never met in person, we lived through some interesting times together over the interwebs and he has a special place in my heart. I think it has a comfy chair and some poker chips left over.

I'm dropping by to reflect the fact that I'm looking through some of Niels' videos on Youtube and am appreciating their content. I dunno what is happening here, but I do remember so long ago when Niels was working through logos for the site and sent me designs for my critique. My final judgment: ++win on the current logo. The honest Voluntaryist position is remarkably uncommon. It is the bitch whore sister of all liberty, used and forgotten, spat upon and shamed for no good reason other than that it isn't about corrupt power in any form, but about the truth as derived from the fact of being a sentient being among other sentient beings in a world of resources, and experience.

Hey Niels! I miss those times. I'd love to Skype one day just to hear your voice directly. I hope you're well and that some day we'll meet in person and I can buy you a pint and let you buy me a pint. I'm o.k., but still not clear of my primary objects. I've been studying psychology quite a bit and maybe have a future there.

Cheers,

Alex

by **Nielsio** Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:39 am

Hey Alex,

Long time no see.

As far as psychology, I would recommend Youtube user aaron0883. I went on a trip to the US last summer and had a great time. Aaron was one of the people I met. Here is a list of his videos that I have in my favorites list (chronologically, oldest first):

Donzerly
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQxRwlXUOnk

I Know You Better Than You do
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2HKanZHI-I

Education 9: Socialization
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEdN6z9jihU

Black Market Psychology
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zHkxQtsrvk

The Prisoner's Dilemma and The State
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBmM4GUZX48

Control
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9W5iD7Cbo8

My Greatest Idea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Bw_hlvTo_8

Basically, Aaron and I think very much alike. The difference as far as Youtube goes is that I want something to be fully developed before I put it out, and he has a more layed back "this is what I'm thinking" style. So his idea in 'my greatest idea' is precisely the same idea I had some time ago, but I haven't spoken about it yet. So watching the videos I mention here is a way to get 'up to speed' with my thoughts as well.

Another thing totally unrelated, but that I think you'll like are these songs/band duo that I recently found:

Pomplamoose - Beat it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meT2eqgDjiM

Pomplamoose - September
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xycnv87N_BU

Jack Conte - Chopin/Radiohead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0X-PRpqj7N4

Pomplamoose - Pas Encore
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCCoggBkcdM

Pomplamoose - Le Commun des Mortels
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qg2pD8Yb3o

Pomplamoose - Little Things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hFT853OYfg

Pomplamoose - Mr Sandman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xMCNmUaGko

Cheers!

by Alex Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:52 am

Cheers Niels, I'll happily link away to these.

Its strange how you're describing your style vs. your friend's. I find I'm a bit of both. I play fast and loose, but in that exercise invest little, while in the background my most cherished ideas percolate and only ever are voiced when the time seems ripe. (shrug). I guess we all do that to some degree. Cheers.

by **Nielsio** Sat Mar 13, 2010 8:47 am

Oh haha, Libertymaniacs on Zazzle made this t-shirt:

Lysander Spooner holding up two fingers with the writing "V is for Voluntary".

http://www.zazzle.com/lysander_spooner_voluntaryism_t_shirt-235041703378987038
http://www.zazzle.com/lysander_spooner_t_shirt-235205332455699642

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